Questions on taking Florence as a working base

Will Wang

Will Wang

Member
Hello,

although returned to my ''home'' Trieste, I am preparing to relocate to a major Italian city to smooth legal practice. Consequently, with that city as a work station. I try my best to avoid from choosing Milan and Turin (la mia ex-città).

Florence and Bologna are under favourable consideration. It will be really nice and helpful then to ask the following questions, given that here some expats know Florence way more better than me.

(1) How is the climate in Florence? Is it insupportably hot and humid during summertime?

(2) Is the city too touristic all the year, thus lowering its social and urban service quality? In fact, how about its social, medical and other services?

(3) Is it easy for you to travel to other major Italian cities? Does Florence has a good airport connection with other European cities, and if possible, also with non-European countries? Is it convenient to reach the airport from the city?

(4) How about the average rental cost for a monolocale (per un anno)? I suppose the city does not have convenient rental schemes that are friendly towards a half-year stay.

(5) Is it easier to make friends in the city or in Tuscany for expats?

Thank you so much!

Best regards
W
 
Ciao again, pleasure to keep on chatting about Florence and Tuscany!

I like Bologna as well, although I've never lived there, so can understand the pull. It is a major university town so it might have benefits from that point of view, not sure.

So let's talk about Florence. Yes, it can get hot and humid during the summer but I don't believe it is unbearable. It generally doesn't last long. There have been summers where the heat lasted longer, but it isn't (yet!) a general rule. A fan sometimes is enough, sometimes the A/C makes it even nicer but generally from April through October, you get a whole lots of months of very nice weather... it is generally July and August that are the warmest/hottest.

Tourism is very important for the city and if you choose to live right in the historical center, you might feel like it is over run by tourists. I personally live just outside the center near the Piazza Beccaria area and it is the perfect distance. Close enough to walk downtown and to all of the attractions and am in a lively residential area with lots of shops nearby. It is the same in any direction you choose to head out of the center, since it is a pretty circular area. I know many expats love living in the center for the precise reason that it is lively. All you need to do is head down and restaurants and shops are even closer. The city keeps working on improving general service conditions in the historical center, like making all trash and recycling facilities be in ground and not outside, and very recently in saying it will limit the amount of places that can be AirBnBs. So many people who lived in the center have found their rents go up too much because people prefer to rent to tourists rather than locals, I know the city is working to fight this trend.

So pros to living in center:
- everything is close by
- lively, many more places open for longer

Cons:
- has gotten more expensive
- if you live near one of the main piazzas, it can be loud at night if the nightlife carries on after midnight (many bedrooms for this reason face internal courtyards so don't discard places by their location, but by the internal placement of their rooms).

I would suggest you can get both if you live right around the perimeter of the historical center.

As far as social and health services, the region is one with great services across the board. As a "local" for 20 years, I've not seen it suffer because it is a region geared toward tourism.

Florence is very well connected with the rest of Italy by rail and rest of Europe by air. Most trains pass by Florence as it is a major connection in the rail hub. The airport in Florence is small in comparison to Pisa's airport so Florence itself generally has flights to other European countries and from there you leave Europe, while Pisa has better non-European international connections straight out.

For rentals, check Idealista.it and Immobiliare.it. Both have the rentals tab and then enter your parameters. There is everything - I would say you need to look and see what you find and from there start playing with the search parameters.

As for friends, both Florence and other towns across Tuscany can be easy for making friendships. It all depends on your effort in making those friendships and the type - it will be easier to make friends with other expats themselves in Florence as there are many more of us, while it will be easier to make friends with locals in other towns. I find as far as Italians and locals go, with more contact with foreigners here in Florence, some people are not as "open" on first meeting them but with time, seeing you over and over, they understand you're not a tourist and are here to stay and are more relaxed about chatting and opening up. It does take time. Much easier with other expats who are used to meeting new people all the time, but outside Florence I've found people are more open and curious about chatting and making your acquaintance, in asking questions and welcoming you to the community.

How is life in Trieste and how long have you been there so far? Is it as cold as it looks during the winter? I have to say I've never made a visit but have always been curious as it is always rated as a great place to live.
 
Oh, thanks a lot for your wonderful reply, Lourdes!!

I am enlightened by your answer related to Florence and Tuscany. There is nothing I can comment except to thank you for it, because I never lived in Florence longer than weeks, and your local knowledge is new and fresh. I also solicited views from a Florence-based Italian attorney and a Florentine bar owner on the other bank of Arno river. They shared similar opinions related to accommodation in the city. The perimeter is a good place to stay or a place not far from the perimeter and you have a scooter. It is great to know that health and social services as well as train/airport connections are good over there.

About Trieste, without any injustice incurred upon other Italian cities, I think its life quality is much more higher than many cities I have lived, for example, Paris, Turin, Versoix (Geneva) and Shanghai.

The city is small but not too small like Siena or Arezzo. Life is very comfortable in Trieste, especially if you speak Italian. I wouldn't say that people are warm-hearted towards you, and they will form good friendships with you. But if they see you often, and you smile at them, and you speak Italian, you will easily become ''friendly acquaintances'' with them. For close friendships, it is hard anyway for all expats, and even for those expats who speak proficient Italian. Trieste has many old people. Florence looks younger than Trieste. I have been part of the British film club since the time when I was finishing doctorate studies at law schools - Udine Law School and Trieste Law School -, I realize that there is a British touch on Trieste. There are some American friends who used to teach in international schools or English language schools, but Briton pensioners are those who remain in town. The city attracts Austrians and Britons to buy second homes. But Austrians barely stay longer. There is a Balkan culture around, but most Balkan builders and other type of workers have their own neighbourhood. This phenomena can be seen as a parallel to the small, close-knitted Chinese community here. There are groups of expats who are STEM scientists. They come and go in a few years.

Big cruise ships arrive during summertime, especially post-pandemic. But Trieste is not overcrowded by tourism. There are many music, and theatre events. Hiking is possible and easier to be done. So is swimming, and other sea-related activities.

Medical services are good and convenient, compare to medium-sized cities. Bus transportation services are a lot better than Florence. There are too many cars in Trieste, therefore, it is very hard to find a free parking in town. Scooter and motorcycle are better options.

Houses are not expensive. Rent for a single flat in downtown over 50 square meters generally requires 500 euros. I have this kind of flat with piano inside, and with less than five minutes walk to the sea. And the location is near to the city's main square. But even if you live slightly outside, you can reach the city in less than 20 minutes by foot, and sometimes much quicker by bike.

I have been living in Trieste since 2016. There are few good job opportunities in Trieste. Some people may find opportunities in the insurance industry or in the low-tier managerial or engineering part of the shipping building industry. I see many Italian colleagues stay, but they are also many leaving. My professional expertise attracts a clientele that is varied, and international. Trieste then becomes an unsuitable city for international legal practice and specialization. Because the city has a major university and other important research institutions such as ICTP and SISSA, there are always new people and new expats coming.
 
Thank you for sharing all this info on Trieste, I never knew! I had heard it has great quality of living, but never thought it might be better than even Paris! :D

I am not sure Florence is international enough as far as opportunities for legal clientele. I am thinking Milan would offer more opportunities precisely because a lot of the international firms are based there. If you don't like Milan per se, I've heard some of the towns nearby can be real treasures, including Bergamo! Have you been?
 
You might come here for a visit in the future, and feel it by yourself. Paris is big. You shall take my words at face value. I am sure I will rekindle my love for Paris if I live there again, and I will tell you Paris is the most comfortable city in the world. You may forgive me for my incoherence.

Yay, many international firms including law firms are in Milan. Maybe it is good to try a little bit. I think the same with Florence. An Italian British acquaintance mentioned Bergamo to me the other day. I passed the city one time for the change of flixbus as to reach Turin and Cuneo, but I never visited Bergamo. Bergamo alta is said to be very beautiful. Its name reminded me of Certaldo alto (Boccaccio's hometown) and Monteriggioni which I enjoyed a lot. Have you been to these Tuscany places? Have you ever lived in other Italian cities except for Florence?
 
I've only ever lived in Florence so cannot give direct experience for living in the other towns or cities, but Italy does seem small in comparison to traveling in the US and Mexico so we've done a lot of traveling. Yes, Certaldo Alto and Monteriggioni are lovely towns, different yet both very charming. I've also been to Paris several times and loved each visit more each time, it is in no way comparable to Florence at all! :D

I agree, you could try out Milan and visit other places, and eventually see if it is a good fit or not. You never know! If you work a lot with international clients, it does make sense though to stick to areas with a lot of international connections.... and the other place that comes to mind is Rome. Have you considered it or already lived there?
 
Hi Lourdes, good to hear from you. I happen to see the message notification alert now. Recently, I had two American clients - one from Texas and another is a Briton naturalised in California. They told me that many Americans travel to Canada and Mexico. They didn't know that I already knew it because my two close friends are Americans (attorneys). Now, you confirmed with me again about travels. Yeah, Italy does seem to be small. We know it is very diverse. I love Paris. It has wide, clean boulevards and giant plane trees. It is also a great place to meet people.

Thanks for your lovely idea. :) Big and international law firms are very unpleasant places to work. Many who toil in these places do not stay. I do start to work with international and domestic clients from Italy, France, G.B., China and U.S. whilst trying to offer some free aid/advice to migrants from West Africa. God! The latter really need legal help but they are too poor to afford services. Many Italian lawyers are not great with English nor with French. Rome, hmm, I sojourned there many many times. Florence, Bologna, Turin are a lot better than Rome. I will be in Florence again this March. I can't but envy you and many people who can enjoy a comfortable life in a provincial but culturally international city. Florence surely appears to be that kind of city! :D
 
I like Rome to visit, not to live in. Too big for me, personally. Surely we have the best of both worlds in Florence, it is small enough as well as big enough to meet the needs of many kinds of people, there are lots of expats and students and the larger international companies and many universities bring in people for a year or two and then off they go again to their next post.

I am glad to hear you're balancing work in the corporate legal world with probono work, that is desperately needed in these times we're living in.
Once you've got your schedule for visiting Florence, let me know and hopefully we can meet up for a coffee and a chat!
 
I share your view about Rome. It does feel like Florence is provincial and international at the same time. A good mix between being local and cosmopolitan may yield. Florence's provincial aspect often reminds me of Elizabeth Gaskell's novels. Many English towns were/are still provincial. Many Einaudi-related Italian novelists also wrote about provincial life. Today many Italian cities become less mono-cultural thanks to immigration.

You see something bigger really. That is admirable. I remember, at the Court of Children, we had broken families from Ghana, Cameroon, Nigeria, and occasionally sexual abuse/rape cases against both women and children. At times, women were also the abusers of children. I was shocked by that. Anyway, seeing that does give one some thoughts about our humanity. That was my first lesson after Italian law school - not as a lawyer but as an interpreter of English though. In hospitals, however, one sees the sick, the ill, and those who are close to the end of their lives. ''Desperate'' is a good word.

I wrote too long. I will let you know the travel schedule eventually; see if you'll be free and in town at that time. A true coffee will hopefully ensue. Good night!
 
Good morning, Lourdes. I will be in Florence dal 11 marzo al 15 marzo. Depart on the 15th Mar. In touch then. I bid you good, happy day!
 
Ciao Lourdes, 13th mid morning works for me. Most of my appointments are during the weekend. The alloggio is only three minutes on foot from Novella train station.

It will be nice to meet you in person. You have my contact in the chat panel. And no problem if you cannot make it! Quite normal that we all get important commitments :)
 
That's a great point about Milan being the best spot for international legal clientele. Bergamo is an amazing place, I was there recently and was blown away by its beauty! Definitely worth checking out. Plus, it's close enough to Milan to make the commute workable.
Lourdes said:
Thank you for sharing all this info on Trieste, I had heard it has great quality of living, but never thought it might be better than even Paris! :D

I am not sure Florence is international enough as far as opportunities for legal clientele. I am thinking Milan would offer more opportunities precisely because a lot of the international firms are based there. If you don't like Milan per se, I've heard some of the towns nearby can be real treasures, including Bergamo! Have you been?
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She was right. I do have a probable chance now to work in Milan, but it's for a multinational corporation. For Florence and the rest of Tuscany, there is not much legal work to offer if you're a stranger to them at first. It will take time to build connections and clientele. Bergamo is only 1 hour away from Milan; it appears to be a nice city to live if one continues working as a self-employed lawyer or working for corporations which have a fixed worktable that allows an in-house lawyer to commute conveniently.
 
An update on this thread:

To thank Lourdes.

I did travel heavily to Modena, Turin, Bologna, Padova, Paris and Venice when I was working as a legal counsel for a multinational which has relocated its headquarter to Milan. I resigned from the job bcz their corporate culture wasn't great, despite that their pay was great. Taxes in Italy are high, but for the social and healthcare services we can receive, one cannot complain that much.

To sum, a foreign legal professional who wants to earn decently and also do Intl stuff in Italy, she/he really cannot avoid Milan or the Italian Centro-Nord where industries are placed.

Buone ferie!
 
Ciao Will, good to hear back from you! Not surprised the corporate culture was not great, have heard this before but hope you will find something else soon to keep you in bella Italia!

Do all law offices close in August as well? :) Buon ferie!
 
Ciao Lourdes, grazie della tua risposta. Oh, yeah, I will be surely in Italy - either on-and-off or continuously.

Some corporate culture is not good, but not all of them. My current interlocutors - two multinationals and a top 10 Italian law firm - are very reasonable. I know some Italian SMEs can be really nice places for people to work. Btw, most Italian enterprises are SMEs.

Yes, law offices such as studi legali associati tend to have less activities in August. Self-employed lawyer however organises her holidays flexibly. I had mine in Paris and then Croatia whilst working for an Italian client and an American couple.

Legal practice is demanding everywhere in the world. But the good news is that Italy has a laid back lifestyle in general. I think the States and China can be hyper-competitive and hyper materialistic, such work-life environment has pros and cons. You'd correct me if I am wrong about the U.S. : )

Buone ferie!
 
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